Stay Out of the Workshop! (ft. Zane Knisely) | Ep. 117

[00:00:01] The most thrilling, spitingly series ever! From the pages of R.L. Stine's best-selling books, our screens go on forever and ever. We now return to Goosebumps.

[00:00:19] Hello, Goosebumps Crew members. I'm Shawwin. And I'm Hayden. We'll be guests at Indiana Comic Con June 5th to the 7th in Indianapolis, alongside Tim Jacobus, the original Goosebumps illustrator, and Cal Dodd, the voice of Slappy from the 90s TV show.

[00:01:12] Guess who? Hello. We'll be doing live podcasts Friday at 5 p.m. with Tim Jacobus and Saturday at 9 p.m. We'll have an exclusive look at Bjorn's fan film, Night of the Living Dummy, and we'll have a raffle, prints, and more at our booth, which is number C10. We'll be doing fan interviews if you stop by our booth as well that will appear on the podcast. So we hope to see you there and have a very scary day. Normally we don't do an introduction here because we just jump right into it, but we do have a guest on today.

[00:01:41] A very special guest, Mr. Zane Knisley. And Zane, appreciate you coming on and joining us today. Thanks for having me. So it's always fun to talk about Goosebumps. Yes. Oh, exactly. That's what we do here all the time. So Zane worked on the 90s show from, he believes, season two and three. It kind of gets a little mixed up because of some of the episodes aren't always listed where they should be. Yeah.

[00:02:11] But the general census is season two and three. So no Han and Mask questions today for me, honestly, which is sad, except for maybe Han and Mask 2. I can answer Han and Mask 2 questions. That could be there. Yeah. Don't go by IMDB, we found out. That does say he worked on Attack of the Mutant video game. That is not correct. Never even seen the video game. Wasn't even aware there was a video game.

[00:02:40] He did work on Attack of the Mutant, though. So, I mean, there is that. I did. It's not the game. Yes. Not the game. So, he's going to join us today and talk a little bit about, you know, what made that 90s show special, what they did on there. And, you know, we've had Ron Stefani on here and Alan DeSette, but now we have a new third member of the special effects team.

[00:03:02] And that's always exciting to me because I prefer physical props over CGI, like special effects makeup, things like that. And I'm sure a lot of you out there do as well. So, this will be a very interesting conversation. And before we go to all that, though, Zane, why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and, you know, some of your recent works. Yes. My name is Zane Osley. I'm a special effects makeup artist and I do prosthetic heads and now I make rubber masks because I love those too.

[00:03:32] My recent projects right now are The Boys and The Boys spinoff, kind of the biggest one we did. We worked on Handmaid's Tale, Umbrella Academy. Those are sort of the bigger shows that we've done. Yeah. Oh, I've seen all of those, sir. I'm good. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, you must be aware then The Boys has just finally finished their season finale.

[00:03:59] And, yeah, we're sad to see it go too, but I was happy with it. Homelander's ending, that turned my stomach when I watched it. I thought it gave me what I was looking for there. Just a man stripped of his power and cowering for existence. Yeah, it was pretty sad to watch. Yeah. I'll tell you what. Anthony Starr needs a friggin' nomination for an award.

[00:04:27] Like, I loved a lot of his work. And Homelander took it to another level for his acting because there was times he could just be scary just by standing there looking at you. And it's kind of wild because this dude's wearing an American flag cape. Yeah. You wouldn't think that'd be very scary as a person in front of you. But when you know what this person is capable of and that he's really not all there, that's how well he portrayed it.

[00:04:53] But then you can turn on a dime and think, I feel really bad for this guy. And you just want to, like... I know. And then that's a word. I was like, wasn't that the word? It's okay. You're not a killer, but I really want to just give you a hug. Yeah. I feel so sorry for him. Yeah. Yeah. He did phenomenal. He did phenomenal. You know, like on set, he used to scare me. The actor. Antony, star, used to scare me because he'd just show up and he'd be in that suit and it was just his mere presence.

[00:05:23] And then once we, you know, in the last season did more makeup with him. Wonderful guy. Totally sweet. Fun. You know, at the end he said, it's weird that I've worked on this show so long and we've only discovered each other at the end of the show. It was just, yeah. It was kind of sad to see it all go. So, yeah. Well, I mean, I guess that kind of makes sense. I was trying to think about it. I guess Homelander being who he was in that universe really didn't take a lot of damage from anyone.

[00:05:50] So he didn't really need any prosthetics for anything, kind of like he did in that very last episode. I won't spoil it for you people out there who haven't seen it, but I'm just telling you that that was gruesome. That was a gruesome ending for poor Homelander. Yeah. Deserved, but still gruesome. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, check it out. It'll make you sick. And I agree with you. Anthony Starr deserves an Emmy for this last season for sure.

[00:06:19] I 100% agree with that. It's a shame if he doesn't get one. He did great. And I hope people see that. But it's funny because I think it's now time for a different kind of boys, though, and it's the Vaught Rising that you were worked on as well. So, you know, you still kind of get to keep some of the cast members from the boys in a way. Yep. Soldier Boy will be back.

[00:06:48] Stormfront will be back. Although I can't say Stormfront being back is the best because she's not a very nice character when you get into it. Yeah. She's got bad morals. She's got a bad moral code, I would say. Yeah, you can say that for sure. I want to get you. I don't want to say that.

[00:07:13] I guess kind of going off of what you've done for the boys, what was like, I guess, how much did you work through all seasons? I started on season three. So I didn't work on the first two seasons, but I was a fan of the show. So when I got the call, you know, they're like, would you like to work on the boys? Almost like screamed and fell over. But I had to pretend to be cool. Like, you know, cover the phone and scream and be like, what do you think about it? And I'll get back to you. And then ran downstairs to everyone in the shop.

[00:07:42] I was like, oh, my God, the boys. And everyone was freaking out. So what was your favorite prop that you did or special effects makeup thing that you did for the boys specifically? I mean, I really liked when they ripped Web Weaver in half. That was a fun one. That was wild. Yeah. That took us a couple tries at it. And again, I got to work with Anthony there. And he was funny because we'd have him. He's very busy. Right.

[00:08:10] So we'd have him come on set and he's got the body. And we're like, I just want to see how you would rip the body in half as a superhero. And he kind of he did it fairly quick, like rip and throw the guy away. Just like whatever. And I was like, OK, that's what I I didn't know what to expect. I don't know if you want to see it go slow. But he was just like, no, just garbage. Rip him in half. Oh, man. Because I wasn't sure if you've done every season, because one of my favorite actors was in the first season, but killed off very early on.

[00:08:40] Haley Joel Osment. Oh, yes. His appearance in the show. Ah, yeah. I was excited when I saw him. I forgot about him because it was so long ago. Haley, he's in this. Like, I was excited. He was a sad character. You actually felt for him, too. Yeah. Yeah. He's doing well now, though. He was in, like, Happy Gilmore 2. And he was in Wednesday. So he's doing really good. He's made an awesome comeback. But, yeah, I was sad when they killed him. Well, it felt bad for the character, not the actor. You know that.

[00:09:10] Oh, yeah. I like the actor. I grew up with him. You know? So I was excited to see him in The Boys anyway. But, yeah. You're like, there he is. And now he's gone. He was there and then he was gone. I was like, damn. But it was almost like, in a way, it was kind of funny, I guess. Because I was like, hey, it was just there to be, I mean, killed brutally. But it was bad. It's fine. Happens on The Boys all the time. Someone starts here. Like, they're not going to be here for long. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That final season had one I was surprised by.

[00:09:40] Because I kind of thought there would actually be more deaths. But they kind of surprised me with not as many from the main. But one of the main cast members did meet their end due to Homelander. Which is sad. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to spoil nothing. But if you guys haven't watched season five yet, you need to go watch season five. It's really good. I need to watch it. But I mean, if you haven't watched it yet. I've seen season four.

[00:10:07] And I've had so many shows on my watch list that it's like, I've got to sit down. Me and my wife like the show, like The Boys. And so we're trying to. She's seen, I think, season up to season three, I think. And so I need to get her all caught up with it so that we can keep going. But yeah, I've had a couple things spoiled for me, unfortunately, just from Twitter. And just from now, I think we may have spoiled a bunch of stuff for you.

[00:10:35] No, most of what you talked about, I've already seen the major, like I know about the ending and all of that kind of stuff. Those are the main talking points I know about. I just don't know, like the nitty gritty details and the why. So. All right. Yeah. Well, we won't spoil it then. Let's take this back to your house. Maybe we don't have to throw a spoiler alert up on everything, you know, we've talked about, you know. That's okay. We'll talk goosebumps now, okay?

[00:11:05] Fine. I was going to say, but that said, you know, as much as we love The Boys, we do love goosebumps. Yes. And that was one thing that Zane has worked on. And no, he's not named after, you know, the character Zane in the Goosebumps show or vice versa. But we don't know that for sure. I suspect that. I would like to talk to Dan Angel about that because there were no Zanes. And then I worked on the show for a season and then there's a Zane. So. There was.

[00:11:35] Hey. Coincidence, folks? I don't know. Get your tenfolder hats out. Figure this out. I'm holding said script right now. So, you know, it's a show and tell. But we'll get to that. We'll get to it. When you started with Goosebumps, I mean, what was, do you remember the first episode that you did? Did you start at the beginning of season two or kind of partway through? I, that is a tricky. So I met, I met my friend, Mike Payette. He was a makeup artist on it.

[00:12:05] We were working on a different show and he had finished season one of Goosebumps. And he said to me, I should introduce you to Ron. You should come and work on season two. So when they called me to come in, I want to say it was like Haunted Mass 2, but it might have been before that. Like, it's hard to remember exactly what I was doing. So when I started, I would have been probably like the bottom of the shop, right? Because I would have been the new guy.

[00:12:31] So I came in and would do like the molding, the cleaning up, the scraping of buckets, the mixing of slime, stuff like that. And I don't know how I, yeah, the fun stuff in my opinion. I don't know how it started. I had your broom. Yeah. Clean. Yes. Oh man, I remember stepping into like a bucket of methicilline up to my knee one time because we were carrying a mold and I couldn't see it. And I just stepped into this massive bucket of slime.

[00:13:00] And that stuff does not come off easy. Like you really have to wash it for a long time. I think my pants and my shoes were destroyed. But yeah, when I started, it was the bottom and then I got into set and then I started doing makeup applications and puppeteering on set. I got to play some of the monsters here and there. Luckily, I was a, I still am. I'm a smaller guy. So, you know, they need someone to get the suit saying, go jump in the suit because I could fit into all the suits. Really?

[00:13:31] Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to choose from. I mean, I'm just thinking of one in particular that I, you could tell it was clearly a dude in the suit was how to kill a monster with that weird. Was that one? That weird thing? No, I wasn't in that one. That one was an interesting one. That was kind of like a big bird suit, I think. Right. Was that the one with kind of like the reptilian? Yeah. That big like front mouth thing. Yeah.

[00:13:56] It was like their swamp monster, but it did look like a reptilian bird. Yeah. Yeah. And the man in the suit's hand was the head and his head was sort of in the back. So he looked out sort of in the hunch of the monster's back. Yeah. And then he rolled the head. That one. That had to be someone in a suit, right? Oh, definitely someone in a suit. And I may have been thrown into it here and there. Because, again, you're on set and they just need a quick shot.

[00:14:24] So they'll just throw your arm, put your arm in the head and make it move or something like that. That's what always happened. That's funny because we did hit some others on here kind of said the same thing. Ron said he had played a couple before. And I think Alan said he might have. I can't remember if he did. They all wore masks. They all got to wear the masks in the Haunted Mask. They said the scene where they were wearing masks. Yeah.

[00:14:51] Since Zane didn't work on the first one, I don't know if you're familiar with the first one or not. If you ever got to watch any of the Goosebumps prior to you coming on. Yeah. So that first, I guess, the Haunted Mask episode, the sculptors got to wear the masks for the scene with blue suits. Because it wasn't green screen at the time. It was blue screen, I guess. Yeah. So there were the floating heads that were going around at the end of the episode. So they all got to wear their own masks and kind of go around.

[00:15:20] And I thought that was kind of a funny detail. I figured they would have had other people in there. But it's neat to have the actual people who made those masks in the episode to get to do that. That's, I think, a unique experience that a lot of people don't get. And you're right about that. Do you remember which one you did get to be in a suit for? Like for what episode? Do you know Go Eat Worms? Is it Go Eat Worms? The worm episode? The giant. The phallus worm, as Ron called it. Yeah.

[00:15:49] I was in that phallus worm suit. I'd have to go in. With my arms wrapped up. And when I was in it, my arms were wrapped up. I couldn't bring them down. They had a duct tape necklace with a hair dryer hose so I could breathe. They had a hair dryer outside the suit and it would glow fresh air into the suit. Wow. That's an amazing fact. Like you got to be in the... I didn't realize there was someone in that.

[00:16:16] No, I thought it was like a hard wire maybe that they had. Kind of moving it around. Yeah, I didn't realize anybody was in that. No, it was me. I think in one of the scenes, it'd come out of the dirt and then I'd flop over and wriggle on the ground. And we had a set that was built like on a... Like a raised set. So when you flop on the dirt, you're actually whatever, 10 feet in the air.

[00:16:43] You just blew the minds of all the Goosebumps fans in the community when they hear this. It was like, bye in that scene. There was. And my friend Mike would hold my legs. So I'd pop out of the hole and he'd hold my feet so I wouldn't fall off the set. When I watch it now, that's all I'm going to see. Yeah. That's you. The guy in the scene with his arms up, just waving back and forth. It was quite an air workout. Yeah. That's incredible.

[00:17:11] One thing that Zane actually told me before you guys hopped on was he did play one of the aliens in Attack of the Jack-o'-lanterns. Oh, really? At the very end. The puppet. The worm head. Yeah, the worm head guy. So we were in suits where the shoulders were kind of at our head. And then we'd use our arms with the green little aliens on the top. So it was Mike Payette and I. So we were on set doing a bunch of stuff that night.

[00:17:40] And that's how it ended. The last shot of the night was just like, you're these two aliens walking into the ship, walking into the light. This kind of thing. It's one of the most creepiest endings. Like they were kind of human eating aliens. Were you in the suit when Jack-o'-lantern head was on? Or was that somebody else? No, I would have been there, too. Because then you take off the jack-o'-lantern, whatever, head.

[00:18:09] And then that little green guy was in there. So now I don't know if I was in the suit the whole time. It could have, again, been actors. But then they would throw us in when they needed us for a certain shot. I know in one scene, there's a scene where the girl, I can't remember, she's in like a space suit or something.

[00:18:55] Yeah. Run out of darkness. The sun's coming up. You've got to get this shot. So in the end, I had to actually look at my feet because I couldn't look at her. I'll start laughing. And then we ended up getting this shot. Back then, they also were actually, when they said running out of film, they really meant it. It's nothing digital like it is now and where they can keep going. I was like, God, run out of film.

[00:19:22] I guess a lot of that was going on, too. Running out of film and racing against the sun coming up because we were shooting at night. So that was also a big one, too. Like, the sun's coming up. Sometimes we would have black cloth to try and hide it a bit more. But, yeah, we would always be racing against it. That's one thing. Yeah, you would have had the sun, tape, and also, like, you've got kids on set, too. Like, you know, they can only work so many hours. And that's something I've learned recently.

[00:19:50] So, yeah, it would have been a whole lot of factors in. Like, hurry, we've got to get this done so we can, yeah, move on, you know? No, I totally get that, 100%. Even some of the kids they use. Because I remember doing makeup on what I thought was a girl. And we're talking, and she just started swearing and, like, saying very grown-up things. And I was like, how old are you? Turns out she was 22. I swear, when I'm doing makeup, I thought she was, like, 12 or 13.

[00:20:20] She's 22 years old. What? What if it's only? That was – oh, I'd have to look that up now. I wonder if that was Night of the Living Dummy 3. I think it's either Night of the Living Dummy 3 or the one with the gnomes. Is it Revenge of the Gnomes? Revenge of the Gnomes. Oh, yeah. It might have been the older sister. I think it was the sister and her brother. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I'd have to look that up. We'll have to look it up. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:49] Do you remember that scene from what we were talking about, Jack-O-Lanterns? That has one of the most disturbing scenes, like, in the entire – I knew you were bringing that series. I have to mention it because we were on the episode. The scene where they go trick-or-treating and they go to that house with that creepy dude that's got them all chained up. Remember that? Yeah. That is one of the most disturbing scenes in Goosebumps. Yeah. Because it's just so weird. I mean, the whole episode is weird, right?

[00:21:17] When they go to the Halloween town and you know it's not right. Like, it's too good to be true type of thing. And then – It's just awful. Yeah. And then just for it to keep getting weirder and weirder, like, to have the alien show up at the end. It's like, where are we going? I didn't know we were going here into space with cannibal aliens. Like, wild episode. It's dumb. Yeah. That was a twist ending I didn't see coming. But that's funny because it was like Goosebumps wasn't afraid to kill.

[00:21:45] It just wasn't killing on screen. Yeah. Yeah. They didn't kill on screen. They sneakily got around that for certain things. Insinuating people maybe disappeared or they're gone or, yeah. Yeah. Or already a ghost. You know? So, like, oh, okay. Well, they technically killed a kid, but he was in werewolf form when they killed him. In, well, Fever's War. Well, the thing is you don't know how old he was.

[00:22:10] He looked like a kid, but they made it kind of sound like he was a lot older than he actually was because they said – Could have been 22. He would – He wouldn't – The act of. Well, that's true. But I'm just saying that the story for Werewolf Fever Swamp, that's one of my favorite ones, like, period, visually how that was shot. But I don't know what season that would have been, though. That was one. Because it was a special. Was there – I was going to say it was a special. They did Fever Swamp part two, didn't they?

[00:22:40] Was there a part two to Werewolf of Fever Swamp? Well, they did Werewolf. Yeah, Werewolf Skin. Because I do remember being in a Werewolf suit at some point, too. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. Werewolf of Fever Swamp had two parts. Oh, yeah. It had two parts. And another – Like, it didn't have, like, a second one. Like, Werewolf Fever Swamp 2. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Specials were two partners.

[00:23:08] So, Werewolf Skin, you were in the suit for that as well. So, like, the scene where they're up at the window, for instance, because that's when they're, you know, trying to knock the bars off. Obviously, yeah. So, maybe that – was that you in the suit? I don't know. It's hard to remember because there was also, like, you know, Saturday morning cartoons and you'd host. They had, like, a host of the Saturday morning cartoons. And I think in that one, I got every monster suit.

[00:23:38] I was in The Mummy. I was in The Werewolf. I was in whatever they were doing. I was throwing it on, coming in, doing the little thing, jumping out, coming back in. That was Slappy's Sideshow that had that. That was the – they had the special for Slappy's Sideshow and they had all the characters come in. Yeah, it was like Slappy's Monster Madness on Saturday mornings. Yeah. Yeah, Monster Madness. Like, yeah, I remember that. It was a Sideshow to the show. Yeah.

[00:24:07] And, yeah, there was the werewolf in the suit. There was the mummy and there was – and they even had, like, the – They brought the lawn gnomes. The lawn gnomes was there. The Haunted Mask 2 was in there. I'm pretty sure they shot it right at Ron's studio. So Ron had that workshop at the time and he had, like, a monster room with all the stuff on it.

[00:24:32] And I feel like they just shot on the side of the monster room because I'd run off, get dressed in a costume, come back on, shoot my little segment, run off, come back again as some other monster. It was like a full day of monster stuff. A full day of costume changes. Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like – Like a runaway model for Goosebumps. I feel like I played that werewolf in, like, a theater show at Canada's Wonderland, which is, like, a theme park in Canada. Oh.

[00:25:02] Yeah, because I remember Spider-Man being there and I came out as the werewolf and I was running around and growling at kids. And I remember somebody like, okay, too scary, too scary. Take it down. Well, I am a werewolf, man. I mean – That's what they want. I'm not your pet dog. I'm not your shepherd, okay? I do remember running down the aisles and doing this and kids just cowering and some crawling on the ground and hitting the deck. It was awesome. But, you know, that's what I thought I was there to do, scare the kids.

[00:25:34] That sounds to me like what you're there to do. I don't know why they would tell you different. Yeah. There's a lot of smiles. Screams, but a lot of smiles. Did you happen to work on Vampire Breath? Yeah. I was going to say – that's so funny you were about to say – I was about to say the same thing. I was like, we were talking about Vampire Breath earlier before you hopped on because he was talking about the actor who played the grandpa vampire. Okay. Count Nightwing.

[00:26:04] The guy with the – Yeah, he played Count Nightwing. He was really good is what I was saying because, you know, when we weren't rolling – normal guy, like a normal guy. But when they'd start rolling, he got this presence where you're like, ugh, there's something very creepy and off going on over there. Do you know what was in the bottle?

[00:26:28] Like, do you know, like for that prop, do you have any idea what they used for the Vampire Breath? I don't. You've got the bottle, don't you? I have a bottle. I've been trying to recreate it. Yeah, I'm trying to recreate it, and I cannot figure out what to put in it. Jog my memory. What did it look like? It's a pyramid-shaped bottle, and there's a blue liquid inside of it that's glowing. It almost looks like a glow stick. Yeah.

[00:26:58] But it's got like shimmery dust in there too, and then it's got like a red wax stamp that says Vampire Breath on it. I bet you it was glow stick with glitter, like glow stick juice with glitter in it, or some sort of black light reactive material inside. So they could put a black light on it and have it glow. That's what I'm guessing. But that would have been – that probably wouldn't have been a good Alan question for the prop because he probably did that. Yeah.

[00:27:27] I know for – is it Monster Blood? Mm-hmm. That we bought a lot of that green slime. Like I think Ron bought like $5,000 worth of green slime. Like it was just gallons and gallons of this stuff. Yeah, it turns out I think he said that was a Nickelodeon slime or whatever that they had bought. Is that what it was? Yeah. Ended up using. I believe that's what he said, if I'm not mistaken. We were like, that's what it looks like. He's like, I'm pretty sure that's what it was.

[00:27:58] I'm pretty sure it was. That was at the time Nickelodeon was selling like GAC and slime and all that stuff because that was their whole thing for the Nickelodeon kid shows. Because I do remember unpacking that out of like the little bottles you got. You had to unpack it, put it all into. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that would be it then. And I know at the time we were trying to think like how can we make this? We didn't know how to make it and, you know, it's due in a week type of thing.

[00:28:25] And so we just went, I think Ron's just like, I'm just going to buy it and then we'll have it. We don't have to worry about trying to how to source it and make it. Yeah, I was going to say, because a lot of kids make slime now. My daughter used to be loved to do that. It's messy as all get out, but I let her let her do it. She loved doing it. I think it's pretty easy to make now. But back then, yeah, I was like, it's like, what would we have done with this? Like, how do we do this? You know?

[00:28:55] Because even now, like she was, I think, eight when she started making it. And I was like, how do you know how to do this? I was like, you're eight. I was like, this is like constructing a bomb to me. I was like, what are you doing? Yeah. It's like, I got shaving cream and I got this and I got this. And I'm like, okay. You can make this. Yeah. I was going to say internet, man. That's when you don't have it 30 years ago, though, you got to get creative. This was the amazing thing back in the nineties, because you can only learn about secrets from other people.

[00:29:23] And like someone like Ron was just, he still is. He's, he's, he's the keeper of all these old techniques and secrets that, you know, you just can't find. So back then we couldn't find that stuff on the internet. You could find it from maybe some books or from your peers that you were working with is, and that's how we, you know, would learn everything just by talking to the other people in the industry that maybe have done it before, had a friend who did something and you would try it.

[00:29:50] But yeah, pre, pre internet days, really hard to find info. And then back then we would have people who wouldn't want to share secrets, who would know how to do things, but they're not going to tell you because that's their secret. I've never worked that way. And most of the people I work with, we just, we all share secrets. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, it's kind of, it's kind of shady, but yeah, it's not like it's a,

[00:30:17] you know, it's not like, you know, who the other government on the grassy knoll was, you know what I mean? Like, that's not that crazy of a secret, you know, it's how'd you make this slime bro. So it's a little different, a little different, but yeah, it's funny. Cause like, I think when we were talking earlier and what I mentioned on here too, actually he worked on attack of the mutant with Scott Wickware and we had him on here before and we love Scott. He is just so funny.

[00:30:46] Um, him and his wife, like we love them both. We didn't get to talk to her as much, but, um, yeah, Scott, Scott's fantastic. And it seems like he got to work with him a couple of different times, a few times actually, because where the segues into was they were also on welcome to dead house together. And you were on that as well. And, uh, he did play apparently one of the, uh, the zombies that we may get to see briefly. We're not really sure.

[00:31:15] I'm going to have to try to find you really curious. I think we've, yeah, when they break into the house, you'll see us. Um, another makeup artist I work with Graham Chivers, I don't know if you've talked to him, but he sculpted a lot of stuff too and made a lot of stuff for, for goosebumps. Uh, but we were, yes, I was called the jazz zombie and I had like a dress shirt with a vest and a fedora. I was like, where, where is this guy coming from?

[00:31:40] Um, and Graham was like in a white hazmat suit and he had like a hood on with goofy teeth in, we were all painted up blue, green, whatever. We got to do our own makeup that day and it was fun. Oh, that's cool. And yeah, I think you can see us as we're breaking through a door and then we come rushing into the house. I'm pretty sure I remember the hazmat suit. The hazmat suit. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Well, we'll have Hayden put it up if we can pull that up. It's because every episode's on YouTube. Yeah.

[00:32:10] So we could just screenshot that and we'll, we'll throw it up here just to. And the last time I would have seen it probably was like on TV when the episode aired and we're watching and we're like, Oh, there we are. And you know, you couldn't rewind. But yeah, if you do say, I say we'll be really fast. We'll be in and out. We'll find you. Yeah. If you're there, we'll find you. Welcome to Dead House. I love, that's like my favorite book. And then, yeah, I love the episode as well.

[00:32:38] I just, I think Welcome to Dead House had one of the most creepy, eerie tones to the show. Yeah. It was very, very unnerving, you know, just while watching it. It was one that even as a kid, I felt really weird. Like I felt kind of like off when watching it. There was something about it. I don't know what it was. Uncomfortable. Yeah. It made you feel uncomfortable. Yeah. And you know what? The book did that too. Like the book made you feel very uncomfortable because it's still to this day, the most like,

[00:33:07] I guess, gory Goosebump book. Because it actually talks about like flesh melting off skulls. Like, which is gore, literally. And it's the only Goosebump book that does that. So, because Stein was just coming off Fear Street and they said, write a book for kids. So he was trying to like figure out the tone. And it still snuck a little bit of some of the Fear Street, I think, stuff in there. Yeah. Welcome to Dead House still made it to the editors. But after that, they were like, whoa. Hey. That's slow.

[00:33:36] These are for like eight to 10 year olds. Dial it down. Yep. Yep. When I didn't read a lot of the books, did kids die in the books? Or just that mention again? Yeah. Like what we said, the Giver Swamp in a way. Like, because we don't know how old he is, but like technically he looks like a kid. Like he's like a 12, he's meant to look like a 12, 13 year old kid who, when he is in werewolf form, he like, you know, drowns in the swamp. So kind of. Yeah.

[00:34:04] A lot of the times, like in the books, a lot of the times it was like they were already dead. Like the ghost next door. Like if they killed a kid. Yeah. If it was a kid dying, you would be like talking to their ghost in a sense. So that, that was more what they did. But yeah, there were a couple instances for sure. Okay. They did have like, kind of like the show did. They kind of had like off screen potential death stuff.

[00:34:34] At least until series 2000. Series 2000, I think did have, if I remember right, maybe there's one or two deaths of kids in there. They try to focus on some older. Yeah. So they did an original 62 run and then they realized like after years of doing those, those kids are growing up. So they want to kind of make the next level for those kids to keep reading goosebumps.

[00:35:01] So they started series 2000 because it came out in 99 and it was supposed to go through 2000 plus. And, you know, Scholastic had a whole ordeal legally with Stein and all this stuff during that time. So it was kind of the fall of goosebumps then. Oh no. And during this time, a certain boy wizard book was coming out. So that also didn't help the goosebumps. Oh yeah. Obviously. Harry Potter came out and kind of took over.

[00:35:31] And never let go. To call the magic. I'm assuming that you would have worked on Cry of the Cat and Bride of the Living Dummy. Because that was season four, right? No, season three. Season three. So Cry of the Cat was season four. Yeah. Oh yeah. Cry of the Cat was four. Season three. Yeah. So those were both series 2000. If I'm wrong correctly.

[00:36:00] Those were the only series 2000. Those were, those were series 2000 stories that they. Yeah. But those were the only ones that got turned into episodes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. You might not know the jazz. Yeah. I did not know that one. With you working on two and three. I'd be shocked if they didn't throw you in on four, but four was a very short season. Yeah. Like I'm honestly surprised they even made that into a season in itself rather than just throwing

[00:36:30] it in on season three. Um, yeah, because I think it only had six episodes or something. They were all two partners as well. Yeah. It was all two, it was four episodes, but they were all two partners. So really it was like three, maybe four episodes for a whole season. Okay. Even though they were two partners. Um, but it had like, uh, deep trouble. Shrunk one and two. Cry of the Cat. Cry of the Cat. Frunking Head. Ghost Next Door.

[00:37:00] Ghost Next Door. Oh yeah. Ghost Next Door was four. Okay. Is deep trouble the one with the fish? Yep. Yes. Yeah. I do remember a bit of that. I might've, that may have been where I was leaving. Was that the first episode of season four? I can't remember. Was that season, was that like the first episode? No. I, I want to say, and I don't know, I'll look it up. It was the last episode. I think there's, yeah, it was the last, it was the last one.

[00:37:28] And I believe it was the last one to get shot because that makes sense why you were saying that you were. You may have worked on season four then as well. Yeah. You may have worked on season four. How I, how I got my shrunken head. And that was one we talked about, uh, Zane before where Ron showed us the miniature, uh, shrunken head that had the mechanicals inside, which was absolutely crazy for the time. Um, and, uh, that was apparently the start of season four, but yeah, steep trouble, uh,

[00:37:54] was the last episodes for that. And, uh, we did have, uh, one actor from that episode, come on here and talk to us about that one a little bit, uh, which was an interesting talk. Um, he, he played like the boy protagonist in that, um, not really sure. Cause I keep getting deep trouble too. And deep trouble one books, but no, it was Billy deep. It was Billy deep. Yeah.

[00:38:24] It was Billy deep. Yeah. So we played Billy deep. It was Todd Fennell. So we had Todd on here a while back talking about it. And, uh, yeah, that, that, that was interesting. That was an interesting episode. A lot of, a lot of fish shed, but you can kind of see too, where they try to lean more into more CGI stuff later. Yeah. Yeah. CGI was starting to get a little bigger during that time. Yep. Getting traction. Yeah. I mean, I, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if those were some of the episodes, maybe

[00:38:54] weren't working on because again, they kind of started going on a CGI route a little bit near the end. Yeah. And back then too, like we would float around to different shops. So if Ron's was slow, you'd go work somewhere else. You know what I mean? And sometimes you'd be in between a project. So if Ron started up and I was already involved in another shop. So, so a lot of times, uh, we kind of roll in and out, especially season four. So I kind of do remember those fish and being in the shop for it.

[00:39:23] I don't believe I was on set for it though, for that one. So most of my stuff was two and three. Well, I'm left to do, um, animals from what I was told. Animals. Animals apparently like. Okay. Yeah. Uh, from goosebumps when that kind of finished, they like went and started working on animals from what I understand. Um, but then animals, I think only lasted one season. So, yeah, I was going to say that didn't last very long, which isn't too surprising

[00:39:52] because that would have had to rely heavily on CGI. Okay. Yeah. Cause it was about an alien giving kids powers to turn into animals. So. And then they do that cheesy morph thing where like, yeah. Morphs into a cat. Exactly. Yeah. Honestly, the books took off though. Like they were popular. They were popular. They were around. There's still around. Yeah.

[00:40:22] And I did, I did see where they're trying to do a, uh, kind of a reboot of the show. So they're apparently bringing that back. Oh, Oh, but maybe the fish head you're thinking of though, um, might be shocker on shock street. They did have like a prana head on that too though. And that was one of the earlier episodes. Maybe that's what you're, maybe that was the episode. That was about a boy and a girl at the end of the episode. They turned out to be robots. Um, they weren't actually real children.

[00:40:52] Okay. I didn't know that one. They were AI. It was AI before AI. Yeah. Oh, now. It's like a Skynet inspiration moment there. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I better turn on the lights getting dark in here. It was getting goosebumps spooky. Yeah. I just saw myself in the screen. Like I can't even see myself. That's good lighting. Yeah. Um, that was a good one. But yeah, I mean, there, there was a lot of them and, uh,

[00:41:22] I would think that like, you'd probably worked on, uh, like one day at horror land. And that was a two-parter that was in later seasons. And that's a more popular one, despite that. You don't really get to see a lot of horror land, but again, budget constraints, how are you going to do a whole amusement park with all these crazy rides from the book? Exactly. Did you get to play any of the, uh, the horrors in that one, or? I don't think I worked on that one that I can remember.

[00:41:49] It all kind of blurs into like late nights and monsters and working at the shop. Like, like Ron used to have a thing like, you know, it's seven, eight o'clock, you know, we're tired and pizza would show up pizza 73. And as soon as pizza showed up, we're like, Oh, we're here for another, like five, six hours. Damn. The only time that pizza shows up and everyone's like, damn pizza. The food was the, it was the food was the motive,

[00:42:19] like to keep going, stay motivated. Yeah. The food is like, here's food. You're going to need the energy. Cause you're here for another six hours. Hey, honestly, I love pizza. So I may have been like persuaded to stay longer. It's like, okay. Like, do I get a whole pizza? Like, I still like pizza, but I won't eat. I won't eat pizza 73. That's for sure. Burn yourself out. My stomach starts to turn like, Oh no.

[00:42:48] Brings back the memories. I can't do it. Yeah. There was a lot of work. I'm trying to think of like, was it night of the no revenge? Revenge of the lawn gnomes. The lawn gnomes. Yeah. That was a particularly hard one too. Because it was a lot of nights as well. Like we'd start work at five or six. In, in the evening and go till like six in the morning, the next day.

[00:43:18] Oh, wow. And those guys were little guys like Jordan Prentice. Do you guys, have you interviewed Jordan Prentice? He played. We had reached out. So I think with the information we have, but we never heard back. So it's hard to say if that information we have is correct or not. Yeah. Oh, he was great. He played Howard the duck when he was younger. So when I met him, he was Howard the duck. I was like, Oh my God. Uh, but he was a great guy to work on.

[00:43:46] And we glue these like foam masks, pull them down, glue them over their face. And I think we did a trick at the time where they'd close their eyes and we draw an eye on their clothes. And in the scene, right, you see them, they're like dummies. And then their eyes open up and they're real again, or they're lawn gnomes. And then they become real. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I love that episode too. I'm going to do my typical. That's when I was when they were waking up, like they,

[00:44:15] that's when they did the transition from. They went from statues to real. Yeah. Yeah. It's a statues to real. Yeah. And, uh, that, that was a, that was a creepy episode. That was just one. You wouldn't be terrifying, but they, they, you guys did a good job making that. Creepy. Oh yeah. They were, they were creepy. There was a time when we were driving a set and it's like, if myself, um, my makeup artist, Mike Payette was also there.

[00:44:44] And then, uh, for like little, little people in their lawn gnomes outfit. And if you ever guys seen, you've ever seen the movie for about the circus carnival. It's a, it's an old black and white movie. It's scary. I may have watched it in college. Oh man. And if you ever get to see it, it's, it's very bizarre and, and real at the time, sort of circus freaks, like a guy with no legs that could run on his arms. And it's all real. There's no special effects,

[00:45:12] but they had a scene in the movie where they all start, start chanting. One of us, like one of us, and you're going to be one of them. And all the lawn gnomes in the, yeah, in the car started chanting that one. my friend, Mike, like, Oh my God, this is too, it's too late in the night for this. I'm freaking out. I just saw these little, that's one of my favorite, like 20 minute episodes, like the shorter ones. It's easily up there with one of my favorites. I, I got to do my typical Bjorn thing though.

[00:45:41] I got to ask, did you work on any of the slappy episodes? Uh, the, the third one night, night of the living. So you did Hayden Christensen's, uh, we would have done some of his makeup. Um, we, does slappy explode in that? Did we make us? Am I? Yeah. We had us, uh, yeah. Yep. And that was a major, Oh my God. That went, that was right to the wire.

[00:46:10] Like we were making it right into, until it showed up and they blew it up. Oh wow. Yeah, it was a pain that way. So what did you guys do for that? Like how, what was the actual process? I think he was vermiculite and latex. So we, we put it in a mold. So, so the interior, like he was very crumbly and that was part of the problem too. Trying to pull them out of the mold. He'd often like break and fall into pieces before you even get them out. So we had to make them strong enough to get out of the mold,

[00:46:39] but brittle and weak enough that it could explode. And, you know, not hurt anyone. But in the end, yeah, I think it was latex and vermiculite and it was pretty rough, but I think the way they cut it, you don't really get to see before it explodes. Yeah. Yeah. You just see when they cut it, it's just like a small sliver before he does, because it's originally a shot that coming from up in the window after Rocky threw him out. So you're kind of looking down at slappy, but then as the lightning hits,

[00:47:09] it kind of does from the ground, that camera shot looking up. And then that's just, you know, it's maybe a split second. You might get to see the body there, but yeah, it just goes straight into that explosion pretty much. Yeah. Cause if they had stayed on that body, we all would have went, what the hell is this? This looks terrible. So what did you guys use for the explosion? They, the first time ever used an in suit actor for slappy in certain scenes,

[00:47:38] which when you're a kid, you don't really think about too much. You're just like, why does he look so weird? What's happening here? But as an adult, I was like, Oh, why can't they just do like what they did before? Kind of like the, I like this, the more sneaky slappy, you know, he's walking around, but it's more probably somebody on a skateboard. With a camera as they're like going through a hallway or, or something, you know, like his point of view. Yeah. Yeah. Like the more like the, like the puppet master view or, you know,

[00:48:06] when they're running the little puppets running. So. Was he more Marianne from the first episode? To have a suit made. Yeah. In Tommy two, when they did that one, he was more, yeah, it was just the puppet. Like there was no, there was no little person running around that. And it was, yeah, they, they would use shadows on the wall. If they wanted to show him walking, like there's one shot of him, like walking along and you see just the shadow on the wall. Yeah. And,

[00:48:35] or you would see like when they go into the bathroom, you'd see like the shadow of the feet come there. And he's trying to open the door. Like you remember a little, little hand inserts, stuff like that. Little tricks, sort of shots like that to, to get it. And honestly, I think it was creepier in a way. Cause it was like, he's there, but you can't see him. You can just see like the shadow of him. And I think it was a little more unsettling. Yeah. Well, it leads more to your imagination, right? Like when you don't see the shark, it's scary. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's what made jaws. So yeah.

[00:49:05] Yeah. That whole thing. They did the same thing with slappy. You guys, you guys don't prefer the little person in the suit running around. Did that pull you guys out of it? I don't. Okay. Well, okay. I may have a different take me personally. I don't have a problem with it. It's whenever it switches so drastically, that's whenever it pulls me out of it. So like if it was the little person running around the entire time,

[00:49:32] I don't think many people would have really noticed it all that much, but it's the fact that it goes from ventriloquist dummy to person running to, you know, back to ventriloquist, ventriloquist dummy within like two minutes. That's whenever it pulls you out of it. But me personally, I don't think it would have mattered if it was that way the whole way through. Oh, I love it though. It's so charming. Like, you know, it's the charm to the episode. I think that's what it is. Like we always talk about it too. Like Hayden Christensen,

[00:50:00] obviously they made a dummy of him, right? Like for, um, for Zane, but there's like a shot and Nick knows what I'm talking about. And, it's when like, yeah, sitting in the bedroom and like, it's Hayden Christensen, but you can tell it's just actually him, but you can, you can see you guys have like drawn, you've done like the process, like the guy's kind of like sitting there, like in the chair, like this. And you just have some lines. Like a human dummy.

[00:50:30] But then the, that's back to him again. It's actually the puppet that was made of him sitting there instead. So it could have just been as simple as, I guess the slappies magic taking full control at that point and turning them to that. And again, as kids, we didn't really still transforming. You still, yeah. You still transforming into the dummy. A little bit human, a little bit puppet. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that puppet being scary. Like in the shop, we didn't like it. And we're like, Ooh, yeah.

[00:51:01] It's, it's unsettling. Cause his eyes are just kind of bugging. And yeah, he's kind of, kind of like this. Yeah. And Slappy, like you said, Slappy looked like a puppet. He's a ventriloquist puppet, but the Hayden puppet was like, Ooh, that's like a weird boy puppet. Like again, half puppet, half human. It was great. He was, he was already becoming Darth Vader at that point. So he was slowly, it was happening.

[00:51:27] And even that was the start of his downfall journey. Yeah. Yeah. What, uh, what was there any props that you guys had to like put away? Cause they would freak you out. Uh, or like turn around that kind of stuff. Well, that the Hayden puppet, that was creepy. That one. I didn't like looking at me in the shop kind of thing. And if you're working late, you know, when it's there, he's just,

[00:51:57] yeah, exactly. Like somebody put a towel on that thing. Watching me. Ron still has that. We saw it. He still has the Hayden. I'm going to, I'm going to give Ron a call tomorrow and see what he's got left. Get it all. He's got quite a bit from when we talked to him. some of the stuff obviously didn't last over the years. Cause it was never designed to last.

[00:52:27] Um, like the mud monster from you can't scare me. He said that went very quickly. Um, all the mud, I guess when you cover it, when McDonald's milkshakes, nothing will last too long. McDonald's lost forever. What are you talking about? Apart from the fries, dude, they're, they're on museums like tour right now. The shakes though. Uh, I don't think those last. Is that because we were covering him in method method?

[00:52:55] So we're probably covering that mud man in like method. So in mud. Um, yeah, I'm sure. We'd climb them up. Just kept looking run. Um, but yeah, it was, uh, it's funny to hear those, but, uh, like saber from welcome to camp nightmare, I guess. Wasn't old animatronic. He had used it for another project that he kind of reskinned and kind of got his use out of that. So I guess that's gone now, but he still has like some of the masks from the haunted masks

[00:53:25] episodes. Uh, he still has a Scott Wick wears mutant mask. Uh, he said he had, he had a slappy, but he said he doesn't really know what happened to it. Okay. I'm guessing, uh, I think he said he loaned it out to Fox for those Saturday morning stuff. And then he just never saw it again. So I'm guessing maybe Fox still had it. Yeah. He said he had the mold for, uh, he said he had the mold so he can make another one, I guess, but I will pay.

[00:53:56] He's my boy. I want, I want to run Stefanik may, um, sloppy dummy. My dream. I'm going to talk to him about it tomorrow. Cause we've been, we talk on and off every once in a while. Can you make a sleepy dummy? Well, tell him, tell him we said, hi. I mean, I'll be reaching out to him again here soon to see if the schedule. Like I tell him all the time, break out all the stuff, break out all the molds, you know, we can scan things. Now we can repair things. We can revive things again. And I know he's got some stuff.

[00:54:27] That's one thing about, um, trick or treat studios. I really like, um, so I attended mask fest. Uh, this has been three or four years ago at this point. Now, they, they announced at mask fest that they just, uh, acquired Don post studios. And so they were going to like all of Don posts, warehouses and stuff to get these old molds and everything and what they could salvage. Yeah. And it was rough.

[00:54:55] Like they showed us some of the video and photos they had. These were not taken care of, unfortunately, by the people who were in those facilities. So some, I don't think they could save, but they were able to save quite a bit, despite all the rat feces and a bunch of everything else that was in there, but yeah, it was rough. It was a rough go. Uh, I felt like I needed a hazmat suit and mask just watching the video. Yeah. it was bad. So,

[00:55:23] but now I can see like when you go on their website, all the new Don posts. Well, I say new it's new because they're making it again, but it's the old Don post molds and everything. And that's because they got scanned and they redid them. And yeah, you know, yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I think that Ron needs to preserve that work because it's iconic to people. Yeah. I know he still has something that we all love and cherish too. So. Yep. Definitely want to save it. It's part of history.

[00:55:53] I'll push them tomorrow. I know he's got old molds. He said that are falling apart. And I'm again, like if we can just get a cast out of it, we can fix it up again and remold it. And then, you know, make multiples. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he said he had one for slappy. Um, I think the head and the hands. Yes, please. Drink. I think. Great. I had a haunted mask one, which I told him, I was like, I'll get one of those, sir. But, uh, like, I mean,

[00:56:22] it was just one of those things I was like, he, he still has stuff though. So yeah, I mean, definitely bring it up. It's, it's worth saving. I know Graham, um, Graham's got a Rocky. I've seen it at our shop. really? Oh, nice. Like a cast of them. He's like a stone cast that he just pulled out. And then he realized, uh, Graham realized he had a attack of the mutant Scott's mask, the villain's mask. He threw it out. Yeah. He said, I didn't,

[00:56:52] he's like, I've been carrying this thing for like 15 years. And he said it was in rough shape because it was foam too. So it was like disintegrating, picked it up and started falling apart. So no, like, so one of the original haunted masks went to auction, uh, earlier this year, late last year. I think it was earlier this year. Um, but it's so, it was, it looked in rough shape, um, because it actually went to. Yes.

[00:57:22] It was a screen. One of the screen used masks that are left. Ron has one or two. Catherine long has one, but she's now just put that up for auction as well. Uh, through prop store and hers is in great condition. Now the one that went for a 30 K, uh, just recently, uh, that one was in very rough shape, but it was sealed to preserve it, but it was in the same boat.

[00:57:51] Like I actually have, cause the person who originally owned it sadly never offered it to me to buy, but he did. He was like, I got all these extra pieces to keep falling off of this. He's like, I'm just going to throw it away. I'm like, no, don't you do that. Send them to me. It's like, send them to me. So I've got pieces of it back here, but I mean, I don't have the mask itself, but it, I understand it. Cause it looked like Steve Levitan left it in a window, I guess, where the sun just beamed on it all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:21] It shrunk and got really hard. So they sealed it. Whoever bought it, um, which I believe was meat Canyon. Yeah. Who bought it. Yeah. Really? Uh, yes. Me has it. What's funny is that it's in Kansas city. The haunted mask is in Kansas city. And I'm like, if I could get ahold of him, I'm like 15 to 20 minutes away from him. So I've like,

[00:58:49] I've wanted to get in contact with him so bad. I'm not planning to steal it. I just want to, I want to see it. I want to see it in person. If it goes missing, we know. Okay. Yeah. Check, check my glass glass, glass case. It'll be there. If you steal it, ship it right to Australia where they can't get it. Yeah. I will look after it and I will keep it. I'll never find it there in the outback. Honestly,

[00:59:17] like I would love to speak to Ron because like, yeah, like I'm obsessed with slappy. Like I have over 50 copies. These guys know I'm stupid when it comes to this, but I have like 50 copies of the VHS tape. I'm obsessed with it. And I have, while we were talking about it, I'll quickly show you now. I have one of the original strips, um, signed by everybody, including RL Stein. So, that's awesome. Oh, no. Yeah. I mean, three and there's Hayden Christensen's little autograph there.

[00:59:45] And Stein recently just signed that at, um, curse city cons. Cause I was like, what do I get him to sign? Oh, he was technically in the episode. He was the introduction of that one. So I was like, well, he's a cast member. So he's got to sign the script. So, um, yeah, I mean, either way, I was probably going to get him to do it, but yeah, my dream has always been to own like one of the slappy dummies, you know, like always been a dream. Like even if, even if one could be made, you know, like I would pay for it. You know what I mean? Like that would be a dream. Nick would pay for a haunted mask.

[01:00:14] If he could get one made, you know, like that would be the most amazing thing. Like I have that one that I showed you that, Caesar's done an amazing job, but it's always going to look slightly off, you know, without the original mold. So, but yeah, it looks pretty good. They got the eyes. They got the eyes right on the one you have. He did. He did a really good job with the eyes and the shape of the mouth, how it opens. Cause that was one thing I noticed a lot of people were getting wrong, like when they would make it, but he really focused and dialed in on that.

[01:00:44] And he did a really good job. Cause he did the mouth separately and just, yeah, it was really well done. Um, but he even said he'd love to have one, but you know, I said, Oh, you know, it's wherever the molds are. That's the only way you get an original, like exactly how proportions and everything. It's the only way you get it. Right. I'm making a note of this now. Cause I will, I'm going to call Ron tomorrow. I might even drop. I would buy one. I would do it.

[01:01:12] It's like the final piece of my slappy puzzle in a way. Like I have everything in that room. Like I've bought every slappy item that's ever been made. I think, I don't think I'm missing anything. I've even bought like European stuff that like you wouldn't find here. Like I had to go in like obscure. And, um, I'm like, I just need a, I need like a slappy from the TV show. That's like the original slappy, original slappy, you know, even if it's not, it wouldn't matter. Like just to have a, you know, would be so fricking cool, man.

[01:01:41] And I'll send you a picture of a Rocky too. Yes. That'll be cool. He's the guy that made that dummy is making a Rocky now. He's doing a Rocky. So he's currently working on one. And, and funny enough, uh, it's actually the episode inspired even someone to make the Zane. Uh, there's a Zane. Recently. I just now remember that. Like, uh,

[01:02:09] I think he debuted it over at monster Palooza this weekend with, uh, Catherine long there. He's the guy in the Facebook group, right? Someone has to go to a convention. My slappy all those years ago, but he also made my Carly Beth head bust from the episode, uh, that her mom made for her. He made a version of that too, to have on there. He's scary. Pretty good. And he made the say cheese and die camera just recently, too.

[01:02:38] That was shown at monster police as well. Yeah. He's, he's, he's doing some really good stuff. Um, let's see if I can pull up. We have all these little. Oh yeah. I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure he posted one with just the Zane head. Yeah. You've got it. I think, I think he got it pretty spot on. Oh my God. Yeah. That's pretty good. You know what?

[01:03:07] If I was meeting Hayden at an event, I would take that. Cause I, I feel like if he saw that, he would be like, so he'd be shocked. Like, I can't believe this is in front of me, you know, cause he's always getting star Wars, star Wars, star Wars. So you imagine taking that to him. Yeah. Like he would probably look at it and be like, I can't believe I'm looking at this right now. You know, like you probably actually get a pretty big smile off him. Yeah. I imagine you would. I mean, we do have fans who, uh,

[01:03:35] and friends who have met him at cons, but they'll have them. Well, they'll have him sign goosebumps stuff rather than star Wars. And it just makes his day. Apparently he was like, cause I'm sure he signs like everything star Wars, but he rarely probably gets a, something from his goosebumps time. So I wonder, yeah, it's just a fun experience. I think probably for him when he gets that stuff, how old would he, he would have been like 12, maybe when we were shooting. Yeah. He would have been, he would think so. Let me see. He looked about 13, 14, maybe in the episode.

[01:04:05] Like, cause I mean, a lot of the actors were at least 12 or 13. Yeah. And he could be one of those where I think he's 12 and he's like 17 or something. He's out back smoking and drinking. You're like, aren't you like 12? I know it was a 97 episode. 99. He was 15 or 16. That's what I figured he was older. Cause he did. He definitely looked around the 15.

[01:04:31] You gotta think that the episode two of star Wars was filming. What would that have been? 2001. I think like four years later, he was doing Star Wars. Three, four years. Yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't long after. Like he would have been auditioning three years. I guess so. Cause episode one was in 99. So episode two would have been 2001 or 2002. Right. Crazy.

[01:05:00] I mean, yeah, I guess. It is crazy. you know what? It was wild. He was in. I mean, when we bring up the fact that it's been over 30 years to people, like since the 90s show, there's like, no, it's not like, yeah, it is. It's like, trust me. I understand. I'm the only one from this group that was alive during that time. Uh, I was alive. I was just a toddler. I was alive. I was a toddler. You were here. Were you born?

[01:05:30] 95. I was born. I was born in September, like a month before the horn of mask ad. So I was alive. Even when the TV, before the TV show started, I was technically alive. Yeah. You were like a month old. Were you guys watching goosebumps on TV or were you watching a video? I was watching on TV. Yeah. And when they came in for me,

[01:05:58] my mom on Fridays after school would bring me to blockbuster and like, say, pick out three movies or whatever. And every time I would get at least two goosebumps movies, whether they were the DVDs or the VHS tapes. Yeah. And so I would, that was my experiences that I was watching them on TV for the ones that I, I couldn't rent that weekend. And if they were on, on Saturday or whatever, but if I wanted one that I really wanted to watch,

[01:06:26] I would go to blockbuster and rent that and then watch the rest on, on TV. That's awesome. Would you be around 10 or 11 when you were watching this stuff? Oh, I was, uh, shit. I was probably like five or six. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was cause so my horror journey started is we were, my parents and I were at a movie theater and I saw a poster for the ring. And I was probably four.

[01:06:56] I was probably three or four when I saw this movie poster. And I said that I wanted to watch it and it freaked my parents out. They were like, why do you want to watch your, your, your three? You know, why do you want to watch this movie? Yeah. I just, yeah. I just naturally gravitated towards the horror genre. And when goosebumps like kind of started being something I was aware of, I was obsessed with it. I like read all the books. I watched all the TV shows. Um,

[01:07:26] and then of course, horror land, goosebumps, horror land, the series came out. What was that? 2006 or seven? It was 2008. I got like super into that series and then just kind of rode that wave. And then I got into high school and kind of fell off. And then after college, I was like, I kind of missed this, you know, I miss watching these on Halloween. And, um, um, I started out there. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. Yeah. It's gotten to that point too. I mean,

[01:07:56] nineties kind of made a resurgence in the past three or four years, roughly. And trends are a lot of, you know, everything comes back in style at some point or another. Um, just so happens. Nineties has been turned up to about 11, the last three years or so. And, uh, continues to do so, uh, with merch. And, you know, even now pizza going back to how they're, some of their restaurants are turning back to how they looked back in the nineties. So just going back to nostalgia,

[01:08:26] right? Yep. They're going back for nostalgia to bring those people back in and. Yep. Take it from someone who knows it works. Uh, it does. Yeah. It works on me. Pizza. Can we get me a release of the, the goosebumps? Glow and tell cards. If we're going back. Come on, man. The glow and tell. Anything with like, uh, you know, I would love for like just a nineties TV show, Blu-ray release.

[01:08:56] I don't know why that hasn't happened yet. I think it's so odd in Germany. Well, in Germany, apparently the only country that's done goosebumps officially on Blu-ray is in Germany. And they're doing the nineties version on Blu-ray. The nineties. Yeah. They had the complete series of the nineties show on Blu-ray official release too. Not a, it's not like a burnt copy. Like you can get from some people online. It's just, it was an official release. It was only in Germany. I'd love to see that. I'd love to see what it looks like. Actually, that reminds me of, um, uh,

[01:09:27] the Halloween land one. Why do I always forget what it's called? Attack of the jack-o'-lanterns. Yeah. Oh yeah. That episode. I forgot that we would, we would wear those pumpkin heads with the robes. And then we would have like the, um, the, uh, fishing line to make the mouth move. And you'd be, Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. It was like black line on the inside and you'd pull it and the mouth would just kind of distort.

[01:09:56] Cause the pumpkins were foam. I think. Yeah. Cause you can, you can see it. Like I have one of the masks, one of the jack-o'-lantern masks, like right up there. It's the way that they do. Did make some nineties merch. yeah. The way that they did it was probably the best one they did. Oh, a hundred percent. But the math, the mouth on that one is like firm. Like you cannot, you cannot move it. It's like tight. Yeah. It's a, it's a solid like latex mask. And so you're, you're not moving that one at all. That's right.

[01:10:26] And ours would have been latex probably in foam, but mostly foam. So you just pull it and it wouldn't. Yeah. So you had a little, yeah. Yeah. I almost wonder if, if we could see the fishing line. Did they, did they hide it under the probe or like, is there a chance? It was black fishing line. There's maybe a chance you can see it. That's why I'd love to see like a blu-ray to see. Yeah. It's a bit, but because the robes were black and the fishing line was black, there's a good chance. Yeah. It just disappeared into it.

[01:10:56] And most of these scenes were at night too. So. Right. It's, it's always possible. You could maybe catch a glimpse of it for a moment. I bet, but maybe not. You never know. Cause I never noticed like, for instance, like it, and it becomes super scary to me now. And I'm glad I never saw it as a kid, but in teenage mutant ninja turtles, the movie that came out, uh, the very first live action film. Yeah. There is a scene where Donatello is laughing and I don't know if you've seen it or not, but like,

[01:11:24] he's laughing and you see when the mouth opens the turtle mouth, there's another mouth inside. It's the human actor. It's just like, Oh my God, that is terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. And I'm so glad I never saw it as a kid. I haven't seen that. I go back and watch it. I can't unsee it. Yeah. I'm going to look for it after this. That's awesome. Wow. Wow. It's just one of those things though,

[01:11:50] that kind of gets caught in later when it's already in a finished product. Yeah. They don't think about, you know? So, I mean, I think back then you could get away with lots of stuff because we weren't, we weren't rewinding and freeze frame framing back then. And when we could, it was on VHS. So you'd have such terrible resolution. You couldn't find them now. Yeah. Yeah. I look at, I watch old VHS tapes. I'm like,

[01:12:19] how did we even watch this back then? This is so low res. Like you can't really see any definition. It was all you had. Like it was what you had. All we had. Yeah. And you know, it was the greatest thing at the time though. I mean, you know, like everything, you know, you don't think it's going to get any better. And then the next thing comes along and you're like, Oh my gosh, what did we do here? The stone age is what these VHS tapes are. DVDs are the way. Yeah. What's crazy is I think it actually has more. It's wild.

[01:12:47] The screen you're watching it on rather than the actual media. Like if you, if you plug a VHS player into like a modern flat screen TV, it's going to look weird. But if you go back and use one of those, you know, tube TVs or whatever, it may not look as bad because it's a screen. You're, you might be right, but I still think it'll look bad. Oh, it's, it's definitely, I mean, you're used to seeing 4k, you know,

[01:13:16] 75 FPS type content now, but like, you can watch an old VHS and you can't even really see people's eyes in like, sort of light shots. You just, they're just the outline of them kind of, but I don't know your brain filled in the blanks. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. That's awesome. That is scary. It's like a monster in there. Why are his eyes so freaky? Oh, he looks like a monster. See, that's the thing.

[01:13:43] I think that's just a reflective off maybe some metal that's in there. Okay. It does. It looks like weird little eyes. That's on, because it's on each side of the mouth. So I'm guessing that that's somehow in there, like pieces of metal. Yeah. Because the zoomed in, because it's an old movie, you're not going to get like super clear resolution in it, but. Is that the first Ninja Turtles? Yeah. That was the very first Ninja Turtles movie.

[01:14:13] And yeah, now when I watch that movie, I'm, I'm, I can't unsee it. You know, I was, I was probably too old when that movie came out. I remember just hating it. Cause when I first started reading Ninja Turtle comic books, they were violent and they were. Yeah. Yeah. And lots of killing and blood. I think they were black and white and the turtles were all red. They all had red, you know, mass.

[01:14:39] And then I remember the cartoon and the movie came out and being so mad. Like, why do they sound like surfers? What is this surfer? They're from New York. Sound like. Yeah. But I think I was too old for it. I still watch it. I still like anything Jim Henson. So I'd watch it anyways. Um, back then we were starved for any content with monsters and creatures and anything. Oh man. I'll tell you my favorite film of all time is the never ending story. So it's full of, um,

[01:15:09] full of that. And you can actually go to the studio in Germany. Is it German? In Germany? Yeah. Germany's got everything. Apparently the original snail, the Falcor head, it's all there. And the rock biter all there. That you can go and visit like a studio now. And that's one thing that Ron should have done and made, cause he had so much, like, I remember seeing pictures from way back when of people who got to visit his shop. Even today, he's still got a ton of stuff in his shop. Yeah.

[01:15:39] He should have opened a museum himself. Cause like people would pay to go to that. I'm telling you, like just to see these props. And you get a photo taken to say cheese and die camera. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. His old monster room had it all. And it was like two stories high. So when you walked in, it was really high ceiling and he had all the monsters lined up. It was, it was a thing to see. Um, then his new monster room. I've ever heard of.

[01:16:09] Pardon? The coolest man cave I've ever heard of. Oh, it was awesome. Yeah. I remember being in awe too. Like when I first went there to Ron shop, just being like, Oh my God. I think it was, um, I don't think it was Alan. I think it was Matt to wild. I think he told me it was, it was like a secret way to get in there too. It wasn't just like a open the door and go. Like, I think he says there was like a secret way to get in there or something. Wasn't there a book that you pulled?

[01:16:37] I thought I remember that was something like, it was something like that. I'll have to ask Ron. I think there might've been a book. Yeah. Yeah. There was, there was something that you had to do in order to get into that room. It wasn't just a simple door to turn the knob and go in. So that even made it cooler. I was like, okay. So you're really entering into another world now for sure. Oh yeah. Oh, it was really cool. Prophets and Arnia stuff. I want to say it was Frankenstein.

[01:17:09] Like it was the, it was the Frankenstein book. Cause I just rewatched that episode that we did. I want to say that it was a Frankenstein book that you had to pull and the door would open. You could be right. I mean, yeah, you're probably right. I mean, I do remember he said there was a certain way to get in there because it was like a hidden space and yeah, it was really cool. And you know, there's so much to talk about.

[01:17:38] I know we could go on forever and ever. Cause trust me, I love all this stuff and these guys do too. And you know, that's why it's such a pleasure having you on Zane. And thanks for, thanks for having me. I'm going to look into some of this stuff and I might get back to you guys on this stuff. Sweet. That'd be right. absolutely. I'm praying. I'm praying. Is there anything you, anything you want to promote while you're on here or any place anybody can find you if they want to follow you or anything like that? Oh, I'm a, well,

[01:18:05] I'm on Instagram at Z low C. If you go to Instagram, it's just at Z low C. I'll be at mass fest. You mentioned you go to mass fest. I'll be there as well. Yeah. I didn't go last year, but I was there the year before. Uh, we love to go there. Uh, shivs and I, we make a lot of mass. So yeah, if you're into mass and I'm kind of doing sort of all of them, old school type monster designs. Um, I want to keep it fun.

[01:18:35] So I'll, I'll have some of those on my Instagram soon. I'm probably going to have to open up like a, a hobby Instagram for just all my hobby stuff that I do outside of work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They always have changes they want made. So we're like, let's just make mass where we can just do what we want. And there are no changes. Yeah. So that's what I've been doing lately. Awesome. Awesome. And, uh, again, like he just wrapped, uh,

[01:19:03] up the new spinoff show for the boys, Vought rising. So I'm, I'm sure all you boys fans will be checking that out. I will be checking that out. Uh, very excited for that one. Uh, you'll get to see a lot of his work there and, uh, yeah, you can always go follow Hayden and Bjorn here at their socials as well. All those links are down in the description below. And until next time, Bjorn, what is it? Uh, take care, stay safe and have a very scary day. He's getting better.

[01:19:33] All right. Yeah.